Munroe Bergdorf’s new podcast, a Spotify exclusive, is called “The Way We Are”. (Provided / Spotify)
Munroe Bergdorf is possibly the UK’s most famous trans person.
A role model and advocate, especially for trans youth – Munroe Bergdorf has a “Protect Trans Kids” tattoo and is a patron of the trans children’s charity Mermaids – the 33-year-old has worked with major beauty brands , participated in fashion weeks and paved the way for trans people in the public eye.
It has been a tough road at times for the model, activist and author – pilloried by right-wing media for defending trans rights, subjected to politicians sharing racist and transphobic abuse about them for supporting trans children. , and so abused on Twitter that she quit the social media platform last year.
Even so, they are determined that we all “start to think of ourselves as human beings with diapers”, and realize “that we don’t always have to do everything right”. This extends to conservatives: “I try to find humanity in people who I don’t agree with,” says Munroe.
PinkNews caught up with Munroe to talk about their first podcast, The way we are, astrological signs, social media and growth.
RoseNews: The podcast is all about growth. When was the first time you became interested in this concept and what was going on in your life at the time?
Munroe Bergdorf: When I first started to navigate life in the public eye, I became very aware that we don’t really have the space for people to change their minds or develop their character or their worldview. or evolve.
That was around the time when a lot of people in the public eye were putting out the old tweets, starting at the age of 16 or 12. And we measured the adult to the child. This really bothered me, because of course a 30 year old won’t be the same person they were in their early 20s.
And we don’t take into consideration what was going on with that person at the time. We’re just taking a little tweet, which is – actually I don’t know how many characters it is, because I don’t use Twitter anymore – but it’s a limited number of characters, and we’re building an identity around those. two there. dimensional entity. It’s such a depressing space for us as a society not to allow the complexity and depth of what’s going on in someone’s life to go wrong like that.
When you say you were becoming more visible to the public, what year are we talking about?
I guess, 2017? It wasn’t just ‘me’, it was ‘everyone’. I saw this happening to more and more people.
When I said nonsense on Twitter, I was starting my transition, I was very traumatized, I didn’t like myself, let alone a lot of other people. So to measure myself against that and say that this is what I am now, it’s a shame because we are losing people’s journeys, we are losing the lessons about who people are and how they got there.
Because the reality is that we’ve all said stupid things in our lifetimes, we’ve all been on a journey to become who we are today. Personally, I changed my mind about a thousand things, like the way I looked at feminism in my early twenties was horrible, because I didn’t have access to a version of feminism that I could see myself in. I couldn’t see him. how I see it now.
So I want to have conversations about how people evolve, how they see themselves and how they navigate the world they live in.
In the first episode, your guest is Mabel. I’m obsessed with the way you ask his pronouns and his star sign to kick things off. You’re a Virgo, like Beyoncé, and your pronouns are she and they, aren’t you?
Law! And yes, I am a Virgo, just like Beyoncé and Marsha P. Johnson.
Unbelievable. How do you feel about being a Virgo – are there any traits of Virgo that Munroe Bergdorf particularly identifies with?
I love to be a Virgo. But I often think that if I wasn’t a Virgo, would I like to be a Virgo? Sometimes we are a little too much. Virgos are a very strong energy, and it can be very, very intense. Throughout my life, it has been difficult trying to harness this into cohesive power. I enter a space where I work with myself rather than against myself, and there has always been a lot of inner turmoil.
I’m not very good at leading people. I take criticism well, as long as it is the criticism that I consider productive. I think that as I got older I got mellow a lot. But I think growing up as a Virgo has been a bit of a journey.
The first episode was very nuanced and very deep, and you really get a feel for people’s values through that. What impact do you hope the podcast will have on the people who listen to it?
I just want us to stop seeing ourselves as two-dimensional avatars, and actually start looking at ourselves as human beings who have layers, and we don’t always have to do everything right. It’s so depressing to live in these times when we put so much pressure on each other and also shirk responsibility ourselves by doing this.
Most of the time, we point the finger at other people to absolve us of the work it takes to really improve ourselves. This is something that I also needed to improve myself, the example I often give is how I often find myself dehumanizing the Conservatives, because a lot of what they do in politics I find inhuman. So I would often find myself talking about people that I don’t know after all – who have children, who have families – I find myself talking about them as if they were an idea rather than an idea. anybody.
I’m also trying to find the humanity in the people that I don’t agree with and stop trying to play around with this harmful narrative, which in the end is exactly the same and just under. a different shape. It’s about how we talk to each other, trying to get people to think a little more. There is always a reason why people do what they do, there is a reason why we are the way we are. It is essential.
We all have a past, we all have a future, and the present is a fusion of the two – it is our hope for the future and the echoes of our past.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length.